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Dean Radin – 2

is spent on taking those wishes and visions and making them come true. Until I’d actually lived in both places, it wasn’t obvious to me that there’s a close similarity between the two.

David: But with Hollywood and all, isn’t a lot of California focused on turning dreams into reality? In fact, on some level, can’t you say that about every civilization.

Dean: Yeah, but some places make things happen faster, and the vision is more…

David: More active?

Dean: More active, and maybe broader. Because I’ve lived in the midwest also, and the midwest has a more comfortable feeling to it because things don’t change that quickly. There’s a slower, conventional style, so wild visions are very difficult to get implemented.

David: That’s because all the real mavericks leave, and head to California.

Dean: Yeah, that’s true. And the ones who can’t stand it anymore eventually leave and go somewhere else.

David: Tell me about your research at Bell Labs with regards to developing a psi-based technology.

Dean: First of all, we don’t really understand how any of this stuff works yet. We have working models, like how you can focus your attention on one thing versus another. But a big mystery all along has been why there’s extremely good evidence for psi perception, but the evidence for psi action is not anywhere near as good. In other words, if we’re passive we can perceive all kinds of interesting things. But if we try to make something happen, it’s not so clear that that is in fact what’s happening, because there are lots of ways of appearing to make something happen, if you have the right knowledge.

David: It’s difficult to differentiate between what’s action and what’s perception?

Dean: Not for ordinary phenomena, but for mind-matter interactions, yes. Perception and action seem to be like two sides of the same coin. They are not identical, but they do seem to be complementary in a way that is difficult to disentangle. We’re working on experiments now that may be able to turn perception into action. Could you make a garage door opener out of this, where you think about it opening and it does? Probably, and it may not be distinguishable from the person’s point-of-view as to whether they’re imagining that the door opened in the future, and the door actually opens at that time, or if it’s because one has actually created a causal loop with the object in the future. There might be clever ways of making these things occur.

David: Or making it seem like they occur.

Dean: No, it really will occur. We think that some things may be “caused” to happen as a result of a perception of the future. I should preface this by pointing out that ordinary, common sense language is not really adequate in discussing these sorts of ideas, much in the way that Einstein’s theory of relativity is extremely precise mathematically, but our minds go agog when we try to think about the consequence of spacetime bending.

That said, once you can take advantage of a phenomenon that is no longer bound by time’s arrow flying in only one direction, then somewhere between “all hell breaks loose” and “anything is possible” is in the offering.  I spoke to Nick Herbert last week about one of the experiments that we were considering doing, and he suggested that we don’t do it, because of the unknowns involved.

David: Nick suggested that? I have a hard time believing that.

Dean: Yeah. Then I kept trying to press him on it. Why wouldn’t we want to do this? Because the consequences are unknown. Most likely nothing will happen. It’ll be just one more experiment, and who cares?  But we’re beginning to toy with things like causal sequences and causal paradoxes. And if we have the capability of experimentally creating a causal paradox, it could start things unraveling in a way that we don’t know how to predict very well. The image here is of the Navajo rug, which always has one or more pieces kind of stuck out of it.

David: To symbolize imperfection.

Dean: Yes, and also the Eastern approach. You don’t want to offend the gods by making something perfect, so you leave in an imperfection.  The rug also represents that the fabric of the universe is always in a state of being made. It’s still ready to be woven back into the fabric.

David: Or ready to be unraveled. (laughter)

Dean: Right. So we have a way of pulling a piece of lint out of the fabric of the universe, and if we

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