Dean Radin – 2
Affirmative Action. So it can take a very very long time, as history has shown, for unpopular ideas to finally make it though. As Max Planck said, “science progresses by funerals.”
David: Thomas Kuhn said that it takes about a generation for a new paradigm to be accepted in science.
Dean: Depending on how strong the taboo is. In this case it’s been already about five generations. It might take another five.
David: Why do you think the various psychic abilities that humans are capable of evolved to begin with?
Dean: That’s a good question. It’s not clear to me at all that it evolved, because I think we’re dealing with something which is before evolution in a sense. It’s part of the fabric of the universe. It has to be, because if it was something that evolved, it would suggest that we have created ways of transcending space and time, which doesn’t make sense. How can we create something which, from a conventional point of view, would be a violation of “laws of science”? It can’t be that way.
So, another way of thinking of it is that we make the presumption–and one that most scientists have faith in–that the universe was here before people showed up, that we didn’t create it as a fact of thinking about it, and suddenly it all fell into place. In fact, we have to take that faith, otherwise science would stop, because it becomes a solipsistic universe, and anything we wish to be true would be true. So you start from the assumption that the world is given in some way, and that we’re evolving in it. And if there’s any evolution at all, it’s the evolution of a realization that the fabric of the universe is not the way that Newton saw it. Or actually it is in his mystical sense, but not in the classical physics sense of the Newtonian-Cartesian world.
David: So you see it as being an inherent part of the basic structure of the universe?
Dean: Yes, there’s some aspects of the world for which we now have the term non-locality, which nobody understands very well, but seems to be a fundamental, underlying aspect of the universe. If that is in fact the case, as it seems it must be given theory and experiments, then in many ways psychic phenomena is something you would be compelled to predict. You would predict that occasionally people would have some sense or experience of this kind of interconnectedness.
David: When I interviewed Nick Herbert a few years ago, I asked him a question about Bell’s Theorem being an explanation for telepathy. He told me that, yes, Bell’s Theorem may explain telepathy. But, he then said, the real mystery is: what explains the lack of telepathy?
Dean: That’s right. And it’s an interesting approach to what we’re actually looking at here if we start from the reverse assumption. Russell Targ calls this the “problem of the pork chop in the box”. In a typical clairvoyant or remote-viewing experiment you come into the room, and I say, I have an object that I’ve stuck in this box. Your job is to give me a description of it. Then later, I’ll show you what the object is. We use a pork chop as an example of something very unlikely to be in a box, so you wouldn’t be likely to guess it by chance. Then in the test you give me a description of a pork chop, and sure enough I pull it out, and there it is. Well, how did you know that?
And worse, I could decide what to put into the box tomorrow, and you’d still describe it today. So space-separation, shielding, and all these ordinary things that block perception are somehow transcended. Many years went by trying to explain it through conventional means. We thought that perhaps it’s an electromagnetic ability that allows one to get through the box. Or perhaps I can astral project into it. But every test that looked at shielding, or isolation in space and time, they all show that these things don’t matter.
So theoretically it becomes difficult to understand how to even approach an explanation. Well, what if you started from the opposite premise, which is that all of us know everything, everywhere in space and time. Then the question is, how come you’re not overwhelmed by it? And the answer is, some people *are* overwhelmed by it, and we call them psychotic, and they have to use sedating drugs just to be able to function at all. Because you could imagine how overwhelming it would be. I mean, besides perceiving all the human stuff, there’d be alien stuff, and the inside of stars, and all kinds of bizarre things in the universe, all of which would be impinging on us–not because it’s coming from the outside, but because we’re already there.
David: What you’re saying is certainly in agreement with